Professor Holt et al.
This magnificent deer park extended four miles from Norfolk Park near Sheffield city centre to Handsworth. Living in Handsworth were Robert Hode and Agnes Hode (poll tax records 1379). On the edge of the deer park in Handsworth is a greenwood called Bowden Houstead, and according to the Geste, “Robin spent twenty-two years in the greenwood until his wicked kinswoman, the prioress, betrayed him for the love of her special lover.” After Robin’s death, Agnes “inherited all the houses her brother, Sir Will Hodge, had bought from Robert, the outlaw.”
“Handsworth is an ancient parish in the West Riding of Yorkshire that forms a suburb of south-eastern Sheffield.” Within the West Riding were Loxley, Kirklees, and Morton, the hometown of Nottingham’s Sheriff. "Barnsdale was historically part of the West Riding of Yorkshire." (Wiki) The Dean and Chapter of York administered both Saint Marys in Handsworth and Saint Marys in York for the reigning Monarch to whom they belonged.
Mary, Queen of Scots, suffered here, in what was then Handsworth deer park, a prisoner for fourteen years. She spent six months at Manor Lodge and the other six months in the cold and damp of Sheffield Castle. Cardinal Wolseley was another prisoner at Manor Lodge, held there while travelling to London under military escort, where King Henry VIII and the executioner’s axe awaited him. He became ill after leaving Sheffield and died in Leicester a few days later. His remains are in Leicester Abbey.
Professor Holt
“Since Mr J. Lees (The Quest for Robin Hood, Nottingham, 1987), has tried to revive Stukeley’s pedigree in a revised form, it may be useful to summarise a few of the salient errors.”
First, the critical figure for both Stukeley and Mr Lees is William 'Fitzoth' (Stukeley) or whose heir (Lees) was transferred to the custody of Robert de Vere Earl of Oxford in 1214. In reality, William, the son of Otho, whose heir or heirs were placed in the custody of Aubrey de Vere, Earl of Oxford, in 1205, and transferred to Robert de Vere, Earl of Oxford, in 1214, had nothing to do with the family of Kyme, or with the Earls of Huntingdon, still less with Robin Hood. He is well-known as an official of the Mint, holding his office in charge of the manufacture of the royal dies as a serjeanty. By 1219, he was succeeded by his son, Otho, son of William, who still held office in 1242-3. It follows, therefore, that ‘Robert Fitz Ooth’ is fictitious; so is the alleged link between ‘FitzOoth’ and Kyme; and so are the grounds for seeking an original Robin Hood in the Kyme family.
Second, there is no evidence that any Robert of Kyme mentioned by Mr Lees was outlawed. The instance on which he relies is a royal remission of wrath and indignation incurred by an appeal of rape against Robert of Kyme at Wenlock in 1226; there is no mention of outlawry.
Third, Mr Lee’s ‘Robert of Kyme’ is compounded of at least two distinct individuals; none of them an outlaw, and none of them a disinherited elder son; many of the relationships he proposes within the Kyme family are quite unsupported by any contemporary evidence.
Since the above was written, a contemporary pardon has confirmed Robin’s connection with Loxley.
Professor Holt forgot to say the De Kyme family were Lincolnshire people.
The Complete Peerage Volume 6, speaking about Nottingham’s candidate, says, “Robin Hood (for whose existence, no contemporary evidence has been found) was first called Robert Fitz Ooth in a fictitious pedigree concocted by the 18th-century antiquary William Stukeley.”
Ivanhoe, the fiction
Fountain Dale House in Ricket Lane, Blidworth, Nottinghamshire, was the handsome mansion of Mrs Anne Need. The people of Blidworth knew it as Blidworth Hall. When Sir Walter Scott wrote Ivanhoe, he stayed at Blidworth Hall. Then, 6-7 years after the publication of his novel in 1819, there was a name change. Blidworth Hall became Fountain Dale House, and St. Dunstan's Well became Friar Tuck’s Well. By this means, a person or persons unknown moved the Robin Hood ballads sixty miles south from their setting in Barnsdale into Nottinghamshire. It is the same with Will Scarlet’s grave.
Fountains Abbey is in Fountain Dale, Yorkshire. Blidworth Hall was not an abbey, nor was it in Fountain Dale. Fountains Abbey connects to St. Mary’s Abbey in York, close to Robin Hood. For example, Red Roger and the Prioress of Kirklees were nearby. Barnsdale was Robin’s home. Robin Hood robbed the Bishop of Hereford of his gold in Barnsdale, and it was also in Barnsdale that Robin Hood assisted the poor knight on his way to York. Barnsdale is where Robin Hood built the early wooden church of St. Mary Magdalene near the River Skell. In Barnsdale, Robin Hood and Little John first met and had their famous fight over the same River Skell at Wentbridge. It is also where Robin Hood and the Curtal Friar met and fought over the River Skell at Fountains Abbey. The ballad is a reference to Fountains Abbey in Yorkshire.
(Found in the 1997 edition of the Rhymes of Robyn Hood by R. B. (Barrie) Dobson and J. Taylor, pp. 301-302) (Mr Wright)
If only people had read the opening paragraph of Sir Walter Scott's novel, Mrs. Ann Need and others would have known Ivanhoe is set in and around Sheffield and Doncaster. Chapter one begins:
"In that pleasant district of merry England, which is watered by the river Don, there extended in ancient times a large forest, covering the greater part of the beautiful hills and valleys which lie between Sheffield and the pleasant town of Doncaster. The remains of this extensive wood are still to be seen at the noble seats of Wentworth, of Warncliffe Park, and around Rotherham. Here haunted of yore the fabulous Dragon of Wantley; here were fought many of the most desperate battles during the Civil Wars of the Roses; and here also flourished in ancient times, those bands of gallant outlaws, whose deeds have been rendered so popular in English song."
About the author:
The owner of this website has lived within sight of Loxley since childhood. His father was born in Sheffield, and his mother was a Nottingham girl. During the six-week school holidays, Graham went to be with his aunt and grandma in Nottingham. They lived next door to his mother’s childhood friend, and happily, the friendship continued into the next generation. Graham's aunt would take us children to places of local interest. Sherwood Forest was one of them, and one day, as we drove away from the Major Oak, his aunt said, "Perhaps if we knew the sheriff, we might know who Robin Hood was?" Many years later, the author, stimulated by the memory of those words, began by reading history books in the Sheffield Library, visiting Bradfield archives, and talking to lecturers at the university. In 2000 AD, he joined a group of like-minded people at the Nottingham Forum, and twenty years later, it all came together, and here we have the result of that research. Thank you for reading.
Copyright © 2020, Graham Kirkby All rights reserved. NEXT PAGE
“Handsworth is an ancient parish in the West Riding of Yorkshire that forms a suburb of south-eastern Sheffield.” Within the West Riding were Loxley, Kirklees, and Morton, the hometown of Nottingham’s Sheriff. "Barnsdale was historically part of the West Riding of Yorkshire." (Wiki) The Dean and Chapter of York administered both Saint Marys in Handsworth and Saint Marys in York for the reigning Monarch to whom they belonged.
Mary, Queen of Scots, suffered here, in what was then Handsworth deer park, a prisoner for fourteen years. She spent six months at Manor Lodge and the other six months in the cold and damp of Sheffield Castle. Cardinal Wolseley was another prisoner at Manor Lodge, held there while travelling to London under military escort, where King Henry VIII and the executioner’s axe awaited him. He became ill after leaving Sheffield and died in Leicester a few days later. His remains are in Leicester Abbey.
Professor Holt
“Since Mr J. Lees (The Quest for Robin Hood, Nottingham, 1987), has tried to revive Stukeley’s pedigree in a revised form, it may be useful to summarise a few of the salient errors.”
First, the critical figure for both Stukeley and Mr Lees is William 'Fitzoth' (Stukeley) or whose heir (Lees) was transferred to the custody of Robert de Vere Earl of Oxford in 1214. In reality, William, the son of Otho, whose heir or heirs were placed in the custody of Aubrey de Vere, Earl of Oxford, in 1205, and transferred to Robert de Vere, Earl of Oxford, in 1214, had nothing to do with the family of Kyme, or with the Earls of Huntingdon, still less with Robin Hood. He is well-known as an official of the Mint, holding his office in charge of the manufacture of the royal dies as a serjeanty. By 1219, he was succeeded by his son, Otho, son of William, who still held office in 1242-3. It follows, therefore, that ‘Robert Fitz Ooth’ is fictitious; so is the alleged link between ‘FitzOoth’ and Kyme; and so are the grounds for seeking an original Robin Hood in the Kyme family.
Second, there is no evidence that any Robert of Kyme mentioned by Mr Lees was outlawed. The instance on which he relies is a royal remission of wrath and indignation incurred by an appeal of rape against Robert of Kyme at Wenlock in 1226; there is no mention of outlawry.
Third, Mr Lee’s ‘Robert of Kyme’ is compounded of at least two distinct individuals; none of them an outlaw, and none of them a disinherited elder son; many of the relationships he proposes within the Kyme family are quite unsupported by any contemporary evidence.
Since the above was written, a contemporary pardon has confirmed Robin’s connection with Loxley.
Professor Holt forgot to say the De Kyme family were Lincolnshire people.
The Complete Peerage Volume 6, speaking about Nottingham’s candidate, says, “Robin Hood (for whose existence, no contemporary evidence has been found) was first called Robert Fitz Ooth in a fictitious pedigree concocted by the 18th-century antiquary William Stukeley.”
Ivanhoe, the fiction
Fountain Dale House in Ricket Lane, Blidworth, Nottinghamshire, was the handsome mansion of Mrs Anne Need. The people of Blidworth knew it as Blidworth Hall. When Sir Walter Scott wrote Ivanhoe, he stayed at Blidworth Hall. Then, 6-7 years after the publication of his novel in 1819, there was a name change. Blidworth Hall became Fountain Dale House, and St. Dunstan's Well became Friar Tuck’s Well. By this means, a person or persons unknown moved the Robin Hood ballads sixty miles south from their setting in Barnsdale into Nottinghamshire. It is the same with Will Scarlet’s grave.
Fountains Abbey is in Fountain Dale, Yorkshire. Blidworth Hall was not an abbey, nor was it in Fountain Dale. Fountains Abbey connects to St. Mary’s Abbey in York, close to Robin Hood. For example, Red Roger and the Prioress of Kirklees were nearby. Barnsdale was Robin’s home. Robin Hood robbed the Bishop of Hereford of his gold in Barnsdale, and it was also in Barnsdale that Robin Hood assisted the poor knight on his way to York. Barnsdale is where Robin Hood built the early wooden church of St. Mary Magdalene near the River Skell. In Barnsdale, Robin Hood and Little John first met and had their famous fight over the same River Skell at Wentbridge. It is also where Robin Hood and the Curtal Friar met and fought over the River Skell at Fountains Abbey. The ballad is a reference to Fountains Abbey in Yorkshire.
(Found in the 1997 edition of the Rhymes of Robyn Hood by R. B. (Barrie) Dobson and J. Taylor, pp. 301-302) (Mr Wright)
If only people had read the opening paragraph of Sir Walter Scott's novel, Mrs. Ann Need and others would have known Ivanhoe is set in and around Sheffield and Doncaster. Chapter one begins:
"In that pleasant district of merry England, which is watered by the river Don, there extended in ancient times a large forest, covering the greater part of the beautiful hills and valleys which lie between Sheffield and the pleasant town of Doncaster. The remains of this extensive wood are still to be seen at the noble seats of Wentworth, of Warncliffe Park, and around Rotherham. Here haunted of yore the fabulous Dragon of Wantley; here were fought many of the most desperate battles during the Civil Wars of the Roses; and here also flourished in ancient times, those bands of gallant outlaws, whose deeds have been rendered so popular in English song."
About the author:
The owner of this website has lived within sight of Loxley since childhood. His father was born in Sheffield, and his mother was a Nottingham girl. During the six-week school holidays, Graham went to be with his aunt and grandma in Nottingham. They lived next door to his mother’s childhood friend, and happily, the friendship continued into the next generation. Graham's aunt would take us children to places of local interest. Sherwood Forest was one of them, and one day, as we drove away from the Major Oak, his aunt said, "Perhaps if we knew the sheriff, we might know who Robin Hood was?" Many years later, the author, stimulated by the memory of those words, began by reading history books in the Sheffield Library, visiting Bradfield archives, and talking to lecturers at the university. In 2000 AD, he joined a group of like-minded people at the Nottingham Forum, and twenty years later, it all came together, and here we have the result of that research. Thank you for reading.
Copyright © 2020, Graham Kirkby All rights reserved. NEXT PAGE